Daniel Wohl. From Paris to New York, and from New York to L. A.
Last Monday at Composer´s Forum we had someone that talked us about the nuts and bolts of his creative process apart from his composition process or the creation process of his pieces. Daniel Wohl quickly combined acoustic instruments with electronics as a composer in his first pieces. Nevertheless, he told us that he uses electronics to explore and get to the sounds that he does not know. Electronics is furthermore used in his pieces for obtaining the unreachable sounds by means of the acoustic instruments that feature a lot of the concert music this days.
His very own music (maybe the music he writes for films and TV also, with its limitations) is conceived mainly sonically. In the first piece he showed us I could see some influences by Webern, Ligeti and Gorecki. As for the electronics, which I liked, it was curious to see that although electronics in his work are normally generated from the acoustic instruments of the piece (creating hyperinstruments), the electronics often reminded me to computer-generated or the synth-generated sounds that can be found in electronic composers from the past century. Actually, one of the pieces from the Jouet Electronique by Radigue came to my mind when I was paying attention to the electronics in the first piece he played.
Also, to me it was really impactful to see how his perspective about the final product in the music creation process changed gradually as he started to do live performances with an ensemble and got into album music. He told us that now he sees the album as the final product instead of the never perfect performance. Honestly, I liked a lot his music, but I disagree with him in regard of that matter. Music has a lot of purposes nowadays, but the main purpose of concert music (at least) is and will always be (that I hope) the concert, the live performance.
The style of the second piece he played was a sort of Nancarrow-ish fast paced minimalism. Every piece in his music is a different universe. I like that a lot in today´s composers. In fact, the third piece felt more modern to me, it sounded like Richter at times… But whatever his influences are, his music gave me a very nice impression. It was even refreshing at times because in his music I saw the electronics influenced by chamber music and not the mainstream other way round.
In addition to conclude, I cannot forget the final statement he made in front of all us: “If you are being serious about making music for films and TV, go to L.A.”. That was clear, and for everyone in the room with a J-1 or an F-1 VISA, that was hard. I also remember that he left Paris (where he was born) when he was 18, so I guess he has already gone through at least one of the very tedious process for working legally in the states if you are not an US citizen. Short ago I found out that Americans also need an employer to sponsor their work visa in Europe… I am pretty much against that, but Debate is open!
I think it was really cool to see that Daniel Wohl took from the parts performed in the recording session, and processed them to become another part or set of parts entirely. As such, in the live performance, the performer must face another "version" or "alter-ego" of themselves, which can open up a lot of possibilities both sonically and in generation of meaning.
ReplyDeleteIn terms of the album being the "final version," I agree that in concert music, generally the live performance is regarded as the most commonly accepted "end" of what is to be attained by concert music. However, we can't disregard the fact that the accessibility of music is only increasing with technology, and that multiple records are produced with different performances of the same piece. Combine this with the fact that streaming platforms make music more accessible than ever, I think that we're at a point where concert music isn't purely for the "concert," as it were.
I think we can all remember a time when we're digging through CD stacks, or searching through videos on YouTube to find a brand new source of inspiration, or a new direction for our ears. This process of discovery and sharing is also a very big part of my personal experience with concert music and music overall.
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ReplyDeleteI also thought it was an interesting statement that all attempts at perfection should be channeled into the album product, and leave the more 'flexible' elements for live performance. Although I disagree perhaps with the notion of the album being a 'final version', I think another way to look at it is the album being the version you most consistently agree with/ come back to. While perfection is perhaps pointless to aspire too, creating a version that is most consistent with the idea in your head allows for a 'final product' that although not perfect, is closest to what you want it to sound like, and what variations are based of in a live performance.
ReplyDeleteWohl's music was very different from any music I've heard before. I appreciated the way he explained his pieces and made use of minimalism. One thing that stood out to me as well was how he created hyperinstruments to compose his pieces. I actually thought the hyperinstruments he created were a bit jarring at times, and it actually took me a minute to understand his music and get a grasp on his composing style. It's really interesting to see how far outside the box music can really go.
ReplyDeleteIn regards to the idea of album as final product in concert music, it seems the term "concert" music is losing solid definition, which I see as a good thing, ultimately. It seems, moving forward, works in the field we are in can be considered on a more case by case basis. Some works may be best suited to an album release, while others (like those with a heavy improvisation element) may be best experienced in a live setting. It's all concert music, which doesn't really mean anything, which is neat.
ReplyDeleteI agree with this Evan! As someone who has fluctuated (and struggled a lot) through writing music for performance based off something that was originally written to be listened to on headphones, I think the more we can pick apart these distinctions the healthier the collective bodies of our art will be as a whole. This idea of tying a piece to one unifying sound is something we've seen challenged in forum before - like through the instruction-based pieces So Percussion is championing, but maybe even that is too limiting. Now I'm just kind of thinking out loud, but it might be interesting to write dramatically different "versions" of the same "work" and throw it to your audience and let them decide how they define a singular work.
DeleteI also agree with that statement as well. I feel like as time progresses and new elements are added into pieces like technology, art, dance etc, "concert" music is losing its meaning because all of the sub categories.
DeleteI think the beauty of interpretation separates live music from album recordings and we should cherish the ability of performers to provide us new insights into our music in a live setting.
ReplyDeleteThank you sir... hahahah
DeleteYes I agree! I believe the main purpose of concert music, and music of all other genres, should be the live performance but also, with the large growth of technology, it's interesting the process of recording for albums specifically, especially when most people listen to recordings in their personal time. It's also totally cool to see the differences between musically in live performances and album recordings
ReplyDeleteyeah i don't agree with you
DeleteWohl's comments about the album being the final product made me think of Herrmann's approach to film scoring (where he started playing with instrumentation that would be impractical or impossible in a traditional setting). While these two scenarios are not entirely one to one, I think this concept is important to take under advisement: write for how people will experience your music, and play to the strengths of that medium.
ReplyDeleteI really enjoyed his comments on how he contextualizes the relationship between acoustic and electronic instruments. It's always tempting to think of these two elements as separate entities that we must force in to combination with each other, but I liked his thoughts on how these electronic elements can be directly conceived from the acoustic instruments. I think that leads to a more natural formation of the hyperinstrument.
ReplyDeleteWohl's journeyman career is something I aspire to: collaborating with contemporaries all over the world, releasing work under different record labels, composing for both concert music and screen music, composing for both electronics and acoustic instruments, serving as a producer for himself for others, all the while maintaining his artistic voice. Instead of the traditional - and still totally legitimate - path of specializing in one instrument or one field, Wohl is able to stretch himself to fit whatever comes his way. A wide-ranging CV like his is only possible in the 21st century, a fact I find compelling. I mean this both in terms of the cornucopia of opportunities and formats, as well as the nature of musicians nowadays being able to acquire such kaleidoscopic skillsets as Wohl's. I like the idea of learning more about what my artistic voice is through a maximally diverse set of projects. The more diverse my work can be, the more I get to work all over the world, with all kinds of artists, reaching all kinds of people - and the more I learn about myself and my art form.
ReplyDeleteIm always fascinated when composers successfully blend electronics and acoustic sounds. I think some of the more interesting sounds out there are created that way and I was particularly impressed with the first piece - he created some very interesting textures!
ReplyDeleteWow, it's really interesting to see everyone's takes on the "album as the final product" comment Wohl made. Personally, I don't believe there really ever is a final version of any piece of music, I also don't subscribe to the notion that concert music's "goal" should be the performance nor to the notion that an album is the final product in popular music. The two media are unique and can coexist, each providing a different reference point to the piece (I think a lot about Pink Floyd's "The Wall" which exists as an album, a show, and a movie, all three of which contribute to the larger work, none being supreme to the others).
ReplyDeleteHey Hunter - I totally agree, and at the same time, I think it definitely changes one's thought-process and decision-making when the "final product" is a recorded work, versus a live performance. I think one of the important points Wohl made was that after every live performance of his, he found himself critiquing it and saying "that wasn't perfect" or "x could've been better." In contrast, when the end goal is a recording, theoretically you can have significantly more time in the studio editing / manipulating / etc. That being said, I definitely think the album and live performance can co-exist...
DeleteI also found that comment to be really thought provoking. It's interesting too because there has been so much technological development in live shows thats built to reflect a recorded sound/is a recorded sound (back tracks, pre-recorded vocals, effects and even autotune) and yet of course, the live element naturally takes out the idea of "perfection". Although I will say I'm not sure perfection is what one should strive for in a live setting. Some of my best shows have been where the charts flew off the stage or the guitarists chosen pedal wasn't working but something about the energy in the room made it so that it didn't matter. I also feel like the idea of perfection infects the recording process as well/making an album. I believe it's part of the problem with todays recordings that you can do everything over again, that you can have as many tracks as you want, that you can tweak x or y part of the mix a thousand times (if you have the budget). It's wholly inorganic and if you're striving for perfection, when do you stop?
DeleteKat - I totally agree. I can't speak from a performer's perspective, but even as a composer who sometimes feels frustrated when things don't go the way I imagined in my mind during a live performance of a work, I've grown to value the significance, power and thrill of the moment. It's one of the endless things that allow music making to be new, organic and thrilling each time.
DeleteHunter, i completely agree. Every performance has its beautiful nuances. I would compare the album to something like a picture. It is just a specific capture of a specific moment in time. If we were to recreate that moment, or revisit it, multiple factors would affect the outcome, and create a new performance. For example Dudamel just conducted a concert of John Williams music. They did a controlled recording and released an album. I knew all the music by heart already but hearing the pieces in a new setting with a new conductor refreshed the experience the music gifted. I dont think music is ever done. Even though the notes may never change again, the performance WILL.
DeleteI found the electronic processing of his sounds very interesting, as often into today's contemporary compositions, that is the element of the music that "confuses" me the most and it really helps to just watch someone break down their personal methods to get an idea of how they create their sonic palette for their compositions. As for the "album as the final product" debate that is going on in the comments, I can see both sides, but keeping these electronic components in mind, can see how the album can be thought of as the end goal.
ReplyDeleteI really enjoyed how Daniel creates his compositions, taking organic sound and then shaping it into an electronic 'ghost' of itself to then play along. This reminds me a lot of the company Spitfire Audio as they often will take their orchestral sample recordings and then repurpose them into easy to use synthesizers. I don't think that's a major trend in film music, but I think in the years to come we'll hear more and more of that. I agree to your last paragraph that the best place to work in films is definitely Hollywood. Not to say that there aren't films being made here in New York, but the scale at which they're being made in LA eclipses everywhere else. One might be able to make connections in a smaller market here, but if you're in a larger concentration of the film industry you have a better chance of finding work.
ReplyDeleteAdmittedly, I wasn't a fan of the first piece he played for us upon first listen. I understood its concept, but I couldn't connect with it at the time. I don't know, maybe it's too deep for someone like me? I do, however appreciate his approach to music,- creating hyper-instruments and yielding original and unique sounds from an electronic-acoustic means.
ReplyDeleteIn regards to his opinion being that the final product in music is though an album instead of a live performance, I can see why he would feel that way. The way Daniel incorporates electronics, whether it is manipulating an acoustic instrument, post-performance, or having it as an accompanying instrument, I reckon that there is a high chance that a live performance may not culminate in what he exactly envisions. There is a lot more that can be adjusted to fit his sonic vision through an album. I think both, having live performances and albums, are equally important milestones in one's career, have noticed that the guests that have come to this school have made the importance of having both.
I appreciated Wohl’s minimalistic approach and his combination of electronics and acoustic instruments. I also disagree that the album is the final product, as the music created during each live performance is a final product of that particular performance, as with a ballet or musical.
ReplyDeleteThanks for your input! I really liked Wohl's presentation as well. I especially how he gave us specific information about his compositional process so that we can incorporate some of his strategies into our own compositions. The one the stuck out to me the most was his ability to sync Ableton and Sibelius to work together, giving his demos a higher quality, and also giving him the ability to work from the score, or work from Ableton. As a songwriting major, I think this approach suits me well, because I usually work directly from a DAW to make my compositions.
ReplyDeleteAlthough I agree with him that LA has a larger base for music in LA, I have found many opportunities in NYC, and I believe that both cities lend themselves well to breaking into the film and tv industry.
I really enjoyed listening to him sharing his journey from NYC to LA and musical journey from concert music to album music and the shift of his instrumentation and styles. I honestly don't like a statement such as "if you want to do TV or Film, go to LA" as if that has been working out for everyone. I still love the small independent but creative directors here in NYC and there are so many other attractions here that LA can't provide. However, his life journey after leaving Paris is also something I myself as a student on a visa can relate.
ReplyDeletenice comments everybody, really good hearing about other people's journeys.
ReplyDeleteYou make a very sincere point about the difficulties put on people coming to this country looking for work and I think it’s an important one. If you are going through these issues currently, I apologize because we all know it shouldn’t be such a hardship. I don’t come from the concert music world so I found your comment on his allegiance to the album to be interesting. For me, the album has always been the final mark, but at the same time, I have always gravitated towards elaborate concerts as real displays of what an artist can do. If the live performance is the mouth, the album is the spine but perhaps I need to heed your words more and adjust that idea. I agree with you that his use of electronics seemed to emanate from his classical training, which I think is vital to the sense of honesty I got from his pieces. If he was to disregard that earlier training entirely, I think he’d be cheating himself of where he comes from. I’m glad he didn’t do so.
ReplyDeleteI found Wohl's music to be very cinematic and his compositional process interesting. Regardless of whether I have that much knowledge or interest in electronic music, hearing about his process (and any other composer's process within the realm of my music or not), compels me to rethink my own process and perhaps reconsider how I might hear or perceive the acoustic instruments I most often compose for.
ReplyDeleteI agree - I'm also primarily an acoustic composer and I've never "worked for the album" like he has. I think the way Wohl was using electronics to amplify and extend the possibilities of live performance is super interesting to me, and useful to think about as we continue adding tools to our composer tool belts.
DeleteI really liked Wohl's use of electronic instruments. It's so fascinating to me all of the different uses and levels the music held. It was also really interesting to see how that translated into his actual story from NYC to LA
ReplyDeleteI love Daniel's music, the only thing i take issue with is his approach to live interpretation of his work. I find click tracks to be a stifling force on classical performance, and as they are present in almost every other form of music bar jazz I believe they shouldnt be in classical events. I am conflicted as Wohl's productions are really incredible, but in a live setting I cant help but think it wouldnt be very exciting to watch a bunch of performers playing along to a track
ReplyDeleteI totally agree that more and more electronic music influence can be heard in modern concert music. I think Daniel made a great job to manipulate the sounds depends on an acoustic instrument, it doesn’t make the music going too far away but do has a modern taste and something sounds new. Moving to LA it might be the best choice if you want to be involved in the American film industry, but there are also other areas which have potentials. I think where is the best place to go as a film composer especially for international composers, it all depends where you are from and where you want to live.
ReplyDeleteAs a J-1 visa holder... I wish it were easier for me to live in the US, since I feel like here are all the opportunities for me. But also, we are creative people, if we are determined, we can make out career work out.
ReplyDeleteCombining electronic music instruments/sounds with acoustic and creating a truly balanced and cohesive end product sounds doesn't seem like an easy task and is always interesting to me since I've never tried anything like that musically. I particularly like what the post says about Wohl exploring electronic to explore/pursue the sound's he doesn't know. This is a really cool approach and a great insight to someone like me who isn't familiar with the electronic music world. I also agree with Bella's comment, while an album isn't necessarily the "final version" in my opinion, a good way to look at it is the fact that the album/recorded versions are a permanent record of the music that you and others come back to and reference.
ReplyDeleteI think an important distinction here is understanding which, the album or the live concert, is the aim of the music. What, even, is music created for? The listener or the creator? And in what medium is it supposed to be the ideal? All these questions I think are answered differently by different composers, but it's fun to see what the various responses are.
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